Friday, November 24, 2006

Homework review

I'm returning to Eteraz' fictional philosopher, this time not to debunk his arguments but to feel them out for insights. We're listening for those unarticulated cultural truths that underlie the made up arguments. I think Ali has a great feel for those genuine sensibilities that are the emotional starting points from which the arguments later bubble up.

The fictional philosopher is a tragic example of what happens when you try to graft western philosophical ideas onto eastern thought patterns. So, for the moment, I'd rather look underneath at the emotional worldview that informs jihadists, but more importantly their hundreds of millions of passive supporters.

They find our justice system cold and inhumane, untouched by the qualities of judgment and compassion. They find our legal system abstract and absurd, unconscious of human nature. Our political system, in their eyes, is a whore house.

One way to see underneath the argument is to look at the fictional philosopher's expressed view of Hobbes. The state of nature for Hobbes is a state of total war, every man against every other man. It's a state of unqualified brutality. To the fictional Muslim philosopher, the state of nature is a state of immanent and compelling relationships, warm flesh and blood people taking heed of one another and, naturally, at war with the state, with Leviathan. Man should be governed, in their view, by divine grace and the tools of divine grace, not the cold abstraction we call a state. That state, for Hobbes the solution to mans problems, is here a terrible imposition on and perversion of human nature. More importantly, it's a violent intrusion into man's relationship with god. Law, as the nation-state propagates it, is something stupid and unfeeling. Order, as the nation-state imposes it, is the order of slaves.

One can understand their enthusiasm for 4gw. It's a way of war that truly flows from their deepest convictions about the world. If we call them nihilists, we've entirely missed their point. They only want to sweep away the impediments to the natural fulfillment of human life as god intended it to be, and the greatest of these impediments is the nation-state.


Anonymous TalkinKamel said...

What is so warm, compassionate and caring about Islamic culture? Many of the accounts I've read of it depict a cruel, uncaring, competative society are all, where non-Moslems are hated and feared, where women are abused, and kids are taught hatred in schools.

Of course Islamic scholars push their society's way as being kindlier and more "human", but the actual facts, and the actual condition of most Islamic people (especially the female portion of it) indicate otherwise. Please, let's not get into idealization of supposedly more authentic, "holistice" more humane third-world cultures; we in the West already do too much of that, and it's nonsense.

As for the East thinking "holistically", as opposed to the West---"East" covers a lot of territory: Japan, China, Vietnam, India, as well as the jihadi culture. Do they all think "holistically?" (including the highly industrialized Japanese, or the very business-minded South Koreans, who seem quite goal-oriented)? I'm sorry, but this is a generalization, and I don't think generalizations (in general) help much in understanding others.

As for the Jihadi/Islamist culture, they seem to have quite definite goals in mind, and have been quite open in stating them. Their goal, holistic or not, is to spread Islam across the earth.

12:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really don't think it matters whether there "worldview" is correct in their minds or not. What we really need to wrap our minds around is the fact that rational western thought, liberalis, Christianity and Judaism can not co-exist with Islam peacefully.

The are out to destroy us through any means necessary. Until we see that for the truth that it is, we don't stand a chance.

Once we see the truth, then we have only one option, the same one we had with Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan or even the USSR. Victory or death. We must deal them a decisive blow so terrible, that they will need decades to recover and that will shake their beliefs to the very core. Only by destroying their very civilization, can we defeat them. Otherwise, they will only see it as a small setback, just like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Only a crushing blow will defeat them and I don't think the west has the stomach for the fight.

1:54 PM  
Blogger Eric said...

Not relevant to this post or anything, but I thought I'd let you know that mail to viktorya at 910group dot com bounces.

3:37 PM  
Anonymous TalkinKamel said...

eric is right, that address is incorrect. Why is it so hard to get the right one going?

5:56 PM  
Blogger Abu Nopal said...

fair question. I only control this blog.

try this one: vsk [at] vicktorya [dot] com

11:48 PM  
Anonymous TalkinKamel said...

I tried that email address; it apparently sells motorcycles.

What gives?

7:05 AM  
Blogger Abu Nopal said...

Could you please post the response you got from that email? Include the full header. We'll get to the bottom of this.

8:03 AM  
Anonymous TalkinKamel said...

I've tried again, and now it just tells me I can't get through, to try again later, etc.

6:32 AM  
Blogger Abu Nopal said...

Hi TK,

Sorry to put you through this. Again, please if possible post the responses and full headers here so I can see exactly what's happening. You don't have to include what you've written, just the responses.

Also, there's one more address to try:
910 [at] vicktorya [dot] com

I know this is a crazy situation but it will be worked out.

6:50 AM  
Anonymous TalkinKamel said...

There was no response, no headers, just the usual stuff you get when you can't get through to a website, i.e., "Can't get through, maybe try again later."

11:33 AM  
Anonymous TalkinKamel said...

Okay, now I'm back to motorcycles again, courtesy of Go The header says, "", which is the address you give, so I'm not sure how posting it here would help. It's Go Daddy, listing motorcyle sites, and other stuff, none of which looks as if it has anything to do with the 9/10 group, and that was the only response. I'm really not enough of a tech-no geek to know what to post, or what to do, in order to fix the problem.

11:38 AM  
Anonymous TalkinKamel said...

The page cannot be displayed
The page you are looking for might have been removed or had its name changed.


Please try the following:

Open the home page, and then look for links to the information you want.

If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.

If you still cannot open the page, click the Internet Explorer
Search button to look for similar sites.

Okay, that's the only response I got---the address still doesn't work.

And I'm tired of diddling around with this.

11:40 AM  
Blogger Abu Nopal said...

I think I understand what's happening. Are you using the address as a web URL? It's an email address and can only work through an email program.

Did I understand the situation correctly?

7:18 PM  

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